Curse

Fender · Jan 09, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I tried to balance these vs Wild Blow, Wild Throw and Wild Strike.

Wild Shot - Marksmanship - 5e, 10r
Bow attack. If it hits, any stance being used by your target ends and is disabled for an additional 2/14/18 seconds. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded" and has half normal range.

Wild Pounce (or Bite or Lunge) - Beast Mastery - 10e, 10r
Pet attack. If it hits, this attack will result in a critical hit and any stance being used by your target ends. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

Wild Sweep - Scythe Mastery - 5e, 5r
Scythe attack. If it hits, any stances being used by your target and any foes adjacent to your target end. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

KiyoshiKyokai · Jan 09, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

It's true that stances (like OMG Whirling Defense) are as annoying as anything, and need to be easier to strip off (though something to break through weapon spells is even more needed, as there are no skills to do that yet)

But doesn't any knockdown skill end a stance? I'm not finding any such info on the guildwiki, so maybe I'm totally wrong, but it would make sense if getting knocked down ended a stance.

Cass · Jan 09, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

/notsigned

Stances are harder to end for the reason that they are fewer and only applicable to oneself, as opposed to enchantments. Enchantments can also be stacked. On the flip side, they are also removed more readily. Having stances come off too easily would destroy their use.

Bankai · Jan 09, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiyoshiKyokai

But doesn't any knockdown skill end a stance? I'm not finding any such info on the guildwiki, so maybe I'm totally wrong, but it would make sense if getting knocked down ended a stance.

....no.

I'm not sure about the bow attack. Wild sweep would be ok, but people would still use Wild blow for the critical hit anyway. Wild pounce is good.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 09, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

/Signed

But i dont like the extra ability that you gave the first 2 skills, it just doesnt seem to match with the weapon.

warriorsmiley · Jan 11, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

The bow needs a way to end stances thats about it. All melee class such as dervish's,warriors,assassins can just take wildblow with a (w) secondary leaving the ranger being the only one that cant end stances which is pretty lame.

Jeff Highwind · Jan 11, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Ah Warrior, a R/P with Wild throw?

But I am all for a Wild Shot, but due to expertise it should be 15e for balance reasons.

Shadow of Light · Jan 11, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I believe there's a kind of arrow hunters use that employ a metal ball instead of a sharpened point for the arrowhead. Something like that hitting someone in the head (or elsewhere...) would definitely break a stance.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 11, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Highwind

But I am all for a Wild Shot, but due to expertise it should be 15e for balance reasons.

I could live with that.

One thing to keep in mind, look at the three wild skills in the game now, they all cost 5 energy and are 5 seconds recharge so any new one should be the same i would think.

One exception could be the ranger of course,because he has expertise, but the question is , should it be 10 energy at which point after having 12 expertise would lower it to 5, or should it be 15 at which point that 16 expertise would lower it to 5 energy.

Jeff Highwind · Jan 11, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Actually 10 sounds more logical since only specialists run a 16 Expertise in the game.

arcanemacabre · Jan 11, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Oooh, how about one for a Water Ele -

Slippery Ice - 10e 1c 15r
Create Slippery Ice at target foes location. For 10...18...26 seconds, all foes near this location have their movement slowed by 33% and cannot use stances (all stances end if they enter the area).

Just reminds me of Mortal Kombat, and the "ground ice" move Sub-Zero uses.

lishi · Jan 11, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

I tried to balance these vs Wild Blow, Wild Throw and Wild Strike.

Wild Shot - Marksmanship - 5e, 10r
Bow attack. If it hits, any stance being used by your target ends and is disabled for an additional 2/14/18 seconds. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded" and has half normal range.

Wild Pounce (or Bite or Lunge) - Beast Mastery - 10e, 10r
Pet attack. If it hits, this attack will result in a critical hit and any stance being used by your target ends. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

Wild Sweep - Scythe Mastery - 5e, 5r
Scythe attack. If it hits, any stances being used by your target and any foes adjacent to your target end. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

they are mosts unbalanced.

Wild Blow have a drawback. witch is lose all adrenaline.

a pretty heavy drawback since the best warrior skill are adrenaline based.

Should something like

Wild shot(10e 10r)
Bow attack. If it hits, any stance being used by your target ends all your attack skill are disabled for 20-15-10 second.This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded" and has half normal range.

Wild Pounce (or Bite or Lunge) - Beast Mastery - 10e, 10r
Pet attack. If it hits, this attack will result in a critical hit and any stance being used by your target ends. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."
all your pet attack are disabled for 20-15-10 second

Wild Sweep - Scythe Mastery - 5e, 5r
Scythe attack. If it hits, any stances being used by your target and any foes adjacent to your target end. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."
your attack skill are disabled for 20-15-10 second.

so the stance wont became completely useless (what is the point of taking a stance if you know your enemy can remove them without a probrem each 10 second? and you can't even cover them)

Jeff Highwind · Jan 11, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

lishi, the 20-15-10 disable time is a little harsh. If a war is thinking the right way, he can regain all his adrenaline in less than 10 seconds.

Xenex Xclame · Jan 11, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Also i believe the only reason Wild Blow makes you lose all adrenline is because its a gauranteed Critical, not because it removes the stance.

Fender · Jan 11, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Yeah, I think lishi's changes are a bit harsh.

I did try to give each a negative. Bow half range. Pet attack energy cost. Scythe attack, no special benefit other than AoE stance removal.

The bow attack is half range. Maybe drop the disabling of the stance and add a small amount of dmg instead. And up the energy a bit because of expertise.

Wild Shot - Marksmanship - 10e, 10r
Bow attack. If it hits, any stance being used by your target ends and is hit for +1/12/16 dmg. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded" and has half normal range.

The pet one might need a little more of a downside, but the 10e and 10r is already quite a bit more than the other wild skills. It might be more spamable because of expertise, but I don't think it is that bad. Maybe replace the auto crit with a medium amount of dmg.

Wild Pounce (or Bite or Lunge) - Beast Mastery - 10e, 10r
Pet attack. If it hits, any stance being used by your target ends and is hit for +5/17/21 dmg. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

Wild Sweep might be a little weak, I guess. At least compared to Wild Blow.

Wild Sweep - Scythe Mastery - 5e, 5r
Scythe attack. If it hits, any stances being used by your target and any foes adjacent to your target end and they are hit for +1/12/16 dmg. For every stance ended by Wild Sweep add 5/3/1 seconds to this attack's recharge. This attack can not be "blocked" or "evaded."

RodyPA · Jan 11, 2007, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I would disagree with any non-combat class getting a stance-removal (like an elementalist). The existing skills are all either tied to a specific weapon, or general melee.

That said, the melee skills (Wild Blow, Wild Strike) are a little faster to recharge than Wild Throw - which is ranged. I think that a Wild Shot should be something more like 10 energy, 7-10 second recharge (to get to around the 7 adrenaline Wild Throw). At the same time, the pet attacks are often more lenient in recharge than ranger attacks, so I think a 5 energy 5 recharge is in line.

For Wild Sweep, since it invariably will affect up to three targets (as any scythe attack) it should be more costly in some manner. Maybe something like 10 energy, 10 second recharge? I don't think that it would need to disable your skills.

I think lengthening the recharge time on stances might be excessive.

EDIT: I thought about Wild Sweep some more, and I think Fender is pretty much on there. There are other skills out there that back-load the cost or recharge, so a 5 energy, 5 recharge would be fine where, if more than one target was hit, just add +5 or +10 seconds to its recharge. Making it more than 5 energy after the fact would be a little clunky, I think, and front-loading the attack cost makes it rough to use. So, if it's not that costly, but recharge in 15 seconds, that's not so bad.

Hyper Cutter · Jan 11, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

/signed for the bow one

Jeff Highwind · Jan 11, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Every Ranger wants a Wild Shot because Every Ranger hates a Touch Ranger.

Crom The Pale · Jan 11, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

/unsigned

Please for the love of Warriors no!

Stances are already almost useless in pve since every mob has either wild blow, wild strike or wild throw.

Add to that the monster skills that obliterate any stance using and you find that stances are in dire need of help.

I'd go so far as to say we need a Warrior Elite that makes the next stance unremovable for its duration.
Give us that and you can add some more bow/caster whatever stance removal.

Sqube · Jan 11, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

I'm not down with the Ranger stance-ending technique, because they've got a bunch of attacks that ignore blocking and evasion (which is where most stances are).

I'm definitely down with Wild Pounce, because Beastmasters just get no love.

Wild Sweep... I'm kind of ambivalent towards. The AoE stance removal has the potential to make it really badass in areas where there's a lot of stances used. Maybe bump the cooldown to 8 seconds?